Lost

[Dangerous]

But Ben was once (not so long ago;)) the leader of the Others. How could he not know his subordinate?

[Anansi]

With this dependency ratio, I am not sure anymore. But regardless of this, the fact that Ben knew Dogen at least proves that the Other from the Temple and the Others from Ben were the same "family."

[Matsui]

The problem was that Dogen seemed to be of higher rank, even the first after Jacob (note, for example, that black smoke could not enter the temple as long as Dogen was alive; although Ben also knew something about the monster and was able to evoke it - then it was always a monster to whom he humbled himself and Dogen had a greater understanding of the point, to him it was an 'angry men' person).
Fact two, Dogen spoke to Jacob, knew him more or less. To Ben, Jacob was a mystery, and he was even ready to kill Locke when he said he had heard Jacob. Because Ben had never even seen Jacob and was only leading the group traveling around the island ... with advisor Richard, by whom he was appointed and who also knew / saw Jacob.
Fact three, only Richard seemed to know about the Temple (when the flare was fired and what the flare meant).
Fact four, so far neither Ben nor anyone else in his group revealed their knowledge of the healing properties of the island (although they may have concealed it). Dogen, on the other hand, seems to know that the secret lies in the water from the source (and perhaps the nanomachines;)). Why wouldn't Ben go to the spring and try to heal the cancer with his water first, instead of risking machinations with Jack (unless he has already tried this off-screen).

Either way, it prompts me to accept the Temple as a higher circle of initiation closer to Jacob, which perhaps shows that there were two separate groups of Others.

Of course, unless I fell into the trap of looking for meaning in the show's shortcomings.

[Onirke]

But the two groups were touching each other somehow. Remember this scene from Season 3 (I think?): When Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were in cages? (Those tortures now make sense after Sayid happened this season.) Then a woman from Dogen's group (because she was in the temple with the children), who was a flight attendant on Oceanic 815, approached Jack's cage.

Also, in the episode with Ben's big flashback, Richard came to him from the jungle, from "someone" (from the temple, from Jacob) and told him about the fighting on the island (with Nie-Lock, probably). Maybe this group of Ben were such "newbies"? Although in Ben's relationship with Richard it was evident that Ben enjoyed unquestionable authority, and perhaps - considering the final with Jacob and the incident with Locke in Jacob's cabin before that - it was only a game on his part to make appearances. And Richard let him (because Jacob told him to). After all, they needed Ben as a man from the inside of the Dharma Initiative who got the Dharma done. And then - maybe - they pulled money from the outside keeping some semblance of it?

And Widmore is probably the "heir" of the Dharma, less pacifist than its creators (probably too late in the series to develop the thread of the Alvar Hanso foundation, which appeared online in the game).

It will be fun to watch this series in its entirety one day, episode after episode. After the final, a list of inaccuracies will probably appear and a legend will grow

MORT - I admire your stubbornness with these nanomachines. But, for now, it is not excluded. Though some mystical notes appear from time to time. And it may be that they will go to the finale towards story solutions like in Battlestar Galactica.

[Pensmug]

Ben may have tried to heal himself, but I rather doubt it for one reason: He once said that after everything he did for the Island, the Island rejected him and gave him cancer. So why go to the source, it doesn't "work" against the Island;)

I don't think there are two groups of Others; yes, they could be divided into groups (like in season 5 - some were sitting on the beach, some in the Temple), but it was not a clear division. Remember that in Season 3, after the loss of the Barracks, the Other Barracks (Ben was there, Richard etc) went to the Temple. In one of the last episodes, this is also where the Others went from under the statue of Tawaret. It seems to me that the Temple served as a home for Others, a refuge after they left the Barracks.

Ben must have known about the Temple (gave it the location of Rousseau and Alex). Anyway, he was there himself when he was healed after being shot.

As for Dogen's position. The problem is they never showed us his relationship with Richard, Ben, Lock, Widmore, anyone. That's why we don't really know what position he was among the Others; I guess shorter than the leader - he was just the steward of the Temple, keeping MIB from breaking into it (probably another Jacob gift), but that's about it.

And who was the Monster to Ben ... while he was imprisoned, remember that at least in one situation he helped him; you could say: he listened. I mean, he came at his call to chase away a gang of mercenaries

[Gor]

The only reason the monster helped him was that he had a plan in mind for Ben. Otherwise, he would not have appeared, and this was probably the case. Just as the Monster never did anything to Locke - he was playing a very important role, after all. And the rest died when meeting him.

[Kaikki]

Yes, it's logical, but!

MIB is not omnipotent and cannot predict the future. We know that. The theme of free will, change of destiny was explored too often in the series, so that at the end we left with "it was all set up and MIB knew from the beginning how it would all end".

Hence the question: how did MIB know not to hurt Locke? Envisioned the rescue of Oceanic 6, timeshifty, flight Ajira 316? Well, not really. The fact that John was there is the product of a myriad of variables. The fact that he was killed and his body returned to the island is again a mass of variables. It would be enough if one brick was pulled out somewhere along the way, and from the elaborate one? the plan would be stranded.

Maybe the MIB just saw that Locke's body is in the crashed plane of Ajira and it's a good opportunity to find the "loophole"? But how could he know Ben would follow him? Or that someone would discover Locke's body sooner, and his identity would be exposed before he led to Jacob's death? Although, on the other hand, he was practically safe ... just a missed opportunity.

Same with Ben: the guy knew to call for help, he seemed sure he would get it, so I think it's safe to assume this isn't the first time MIB has helped him. And again, what package? Did he anticipate that Ben would be of use to him one day? That he would not die somewhere along the way (which, considering Ben's behavior, was very likely)? That at the last moment he won't say "no, I believe in Jacob, leave me alone"? After all, it was possible (since Jacob hoped to the end that he was wrong about Ben).

In conclusion, the question arises: are all of these events an intricate MIB scheme (and if so, how did he know who to "bet"?) Or is the guy just a huge gambler?

[Veldrin]

You completely forgot about Jacob - after all, he influenced the lives of the heroes so that their lives would go this way and not otherwise and they ended up in flight 815. For me, all events are a game between Jacob and the Dark Character (Villain for short), this game has certain rules (as the boy was talking about) and I think Jacob and Villain have the same opportunities. Remember that the pilot (I don't remember the name of Oo) overslept on flight 815, but he ended up on the island anyway. I like the vision of Lost as a chess game in which Jacob has already lost a queen (who was beaten by Ben) and Villain promoted a pawn. Movements can be predicted, but the opponent can thwart plans with the hand of the heroes. Nothing happens by accident, as was already explained in what was probably the second season (Hurley, lottery win and numbers, the same as in the bunker).
regards

[Irakhash]

Ha! MORT, your theory still holds up as long as we assume that FLocke or Nie-Locke are lying. It's very likely, especially as he has a good word for everyone, but he's a disturbing type. Maybe the final will be that they will be alone on the island with Jacob again? Because everyone else will end up dead. Because there is always someone coming to this island. If not Black Rock, it's Oceanic 815 or Ajira. The good ending is one that shows that the Game never ends. It is a good, working patent.

[Vataes]

Of course it makes a difference! This is what this series is about;)
Nothing is known for certain until (almost) the very end.
Well, NieLock does not have to lie (what for?). He could indeed have been a human once, whose self was transferred to a monster (or nanomachines ).

However, I am slowly beginning to doubt this version of my own, because it probably requires too much translation. And it's always easier to blame it on mysticism or magic ... although on the third hand, LOST tried to keep 'realism', firmly embedded in reality from the very beginning, explaining all ... well, most of the phenomena, even those seemingly supernatural. It was like that from the beginning, so you can assume that it will be like this until the end (or that it will not be like that, because they will want to surprise us ... my head hurts: P)

We'll see.

It seems to me (and it can be inferred from Jacob and MiB's conversation) that this is not the first game (regardless of whether they are in a time loop or not). And if this is not the first game, I think that the one we are witnessing will end in a different way than a draw ... i.e. a partial win of one of the sides, although it is very possible that Jacob and / or Lock, in any combination, will be replaced by new people. But this will be the game of other players.

As for talking about the Others, if you say that people from both groups mixed up, I believe you. Unfortunately, I have some memory gaps. I only watched the first two seasons twice. The rest only once, and only on TVP1, i.e. with long, weekly breaks.
Now, I am wondering whether I should refresh myself the whole thing right now, before the final. Perhaps a few details will still be picked up.

Still, I find it hard to believe that all of the Others suddenly know Jacob, and their leader, Ben, only heard of him. And Ben couldn't pretend he wasn't in contact with Jacob. He was genuinely pissed off both when he shot Locke for hearing Jacob, and at Jacob himself just before killing him.
As for the 'gift' for Dogen, that's right.

As for the possibilities of Jacob and NieLock, they are obviously not the same. While they may generally have the same source of power, NieLock was trapped and did not have, and still does not have, access to time travel technology.
He was always the one at a disadvantage (the stones on the scales in the cave), and he had to earnestly look for that whole hole in Jacob's actions. So I think he is a gambler, but not so ordinary. In this poker game, only Jacob and NieLock are adults and the rest are kids. Some people don't like the game, some can be easily eliminated or manipulated.

As for the latest episode, have fun with Sawyer's work.


... and something else is bothering me.

The whole scene with Ben and Lockie going to Jacob's. What I remember / know:
-Ben didn't think there was anyone there, he just wanted to manipulate Locke and was as surprised as Lock that they met something (why did they go there?)
The voice asked Locke to help him
- Ilana's team was looking for Jacob in the same cabin. It turns out she was surrounded by a broken circle of ash, keeping him apparently tethered earlier (since? I can't remember if it was shown before. Who broke the line? Why was Ilana looking for him there? Ben never found him there.)

Ash indicates that indeed Jacob and NieLock are of the same nature, with the two most likely not only being able to kill each other, but also to attack directly. The question is, what exactly happened there?

NieLock hasn't had anyone on his side yet, but apparently the fall of the plane gave him an advantage over Jacob (or maybe he had it before?). But how did he manage to trap him in the cabin (I doubt Jacob would just get caught in a circle of ash, especially since MiB probably wouldn't be allowed to do it himself)? How much time did Jacob spend there? Any theory? Additional facts that I may not remember?

It will probably be discussed, but not in retrospect;) Why did I think about the flashback? Because I also thought about Widmora. Perhaps it had something to do with the tipping of the scales in favor of MiB and his breaking off the leash, and with Jacob's imprisonment?