Vampire: Masquerade

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Vanity Fair
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Vanity Fair » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:35 am

Well, let's just say that in this case this werewolf had a chance. They did not destroy an important character (they did not live officially anyway).

As for this "no chance" it sums it up like this:
If the player develops the character long enough, believe it or not, he has a lot of it. A friend insisted, he now sits on the Council of Seven (it took him about 5 years to play the character). An example of the fact that if someone is stubborn and lucky, you can.

Before the fall of Byzantium, the internal war between Toreador and Brujah was torn. Other clans took advantage of the city's weakness and invaded it from the east and west. Toreadrzy had to flee to Italy (the Renaissance is one of their merits). There is nothing anywhere about a declaration of war. But the golden rule applies.

As if Camarilla warned that there would be no Tremers. After all, Cain was afraid to turn magicians. Anyway, the whole quote about the transformation of people from the "Book of Nod" has already been here somewhere. I can share the whole in a non-commercial work as someone interested.
All is vanity, nothing is fair

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Anansi
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Anansi » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:44 am

If this werewolf in this place was sent or put into an intrigue staged by someone with a power equal to the one who was killed, then maybe and could.
But he was protected by the principal or the principal.
If you have high-profile friends, you can do quite a lot, but then you don't know how to pay out of the bills.
Everybody going to be dead one day, just give them time

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Ciliren
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Ciliren » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:47 am

It's just that basically, to 'mount' a werewolf against an antediluvian, you need either an entire clan or a second antediluvian, and they basically don't play it because they don't count it anyway.

Besides, who was this werewolf? Because any antediluvian has such sick amounts of Potency, Toughness, Sensitivity, Presence and Domination that no werewolf would even want to attack him.

There are many examples. In "New Orleans By Night", a team armed with werewolf allies opposes a group of the Ancients (not even Methuselahs, much less Antediluvians). If the ancients had chosen to fight instead of treating the whole situation as a distraction, the team, their allies, the Prince and New Orleans would have been left in bloody tears.

The same is the case, for example, with the Assamite sorcerer Ur-Shulgi (4th generation, i.e. the Antediluvian is still missing). He awoke, blinked dust on his eyelids for a week, then sneezed, and the Tremere curse binding the Asamite clan was lifted. According to the spreadsheet, the sparse powers that he revealed has around 8-9, so low only because he has not yet regained his normal vigor after awakening.

And these are the Ancients and Methuselahs, not the Antediluvians a hundred times more powerful.

By the way, who on the Council of Seven did your friend kill? There, a vacancy seems to be created only after the death of one of the current members.
The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it

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Pensmug
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Pensmug » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:52 am

what a switching powers ... dice and rules.

I think that promotion from the initial (according to the manual) character without additional position and experience to the very top should be absolutely impossible. Playing such a character for a year, even if there are a hundred in the game, is still a long way off. After all, the tops have lived for decades.

It seems to me that "because he has X disciplines" is a very bad argument. Five humans (non-vampire humans) with immunity (by magic) to domination and presence, and other vampiric supernatural influences sent directly to the headquarters of even the most powerful of the flamethrowers will destroy it. 50k damage per round?
HOWEVER, WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT
all the threads, all the servants, all caught up in the antediluvian plot, this is a real trouble. Influences, influences, influences - a structure built for hundreds of years - this is something that is practically impossible to penetrate.
This execution squad of professionals like Google will hit any trace, without knowing it, it will be so manipulated that it will attack some influential enemy of vampire X. And after the action their allies will finish them off.

Well, at least that's how I see it.
One day, you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again.

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Takwir
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Takwir » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:14 pm

Then you don't know the Teners. With them you can quickly advance if you are good - at plotting intrigues against your superiors. How someone can use it in their form is great.
Courage does not always roar. Valor does not always shine.

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Kaikki
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Kaikki » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:22 pm

"Low-level" vampires, ie under 100 years of age and over 8 generations, are still relatively human. Top-shelf vampires, more than 1000 years on the numerator, generations 6 and below - and we are talking about such and even more powerful ones today, have relatively little in common with humans. Even when they have high levels of their enlightenment paths, often their ideals are so alien or sublime that they appear inhuman to mortals. Besides, even with a high path / humanity, one cannot equate 50 years of experience and 5,000 years of experience, including repeatedly watching what's important turn to ashes, resisting the attacks of an increasingly powerful Beast and watching the world change its face. Plus the constant, healthy paranoia necessary to survive for such a long period and the necessity to participate in the most inhuman intrigues and conspiracies (either you have your back and assets, or you die). All this makes vampires a completely alien species (although sometimes you can create the illusion of closeness and understanding).

An antediluvian doesn't "just" lie on a plate and wait for ten guys with blasters to come to it. Aside from the net of influence and virtually immeasurable resources, the location of such an ancient vampire is practically physically inaccessible, considering that all Antediluvians have powers far more developed than void / Umbra / Underworld, merging with the earth, a form of fog or simple thaumaturgic rituals ( disembodied passage, escape to a friend).

Finally, what mortals with magical protection against the Dominance are we talking about? Juggling tricks like numina are good for some little-witted Tremerk from the provinces, and not always. The "bush magician" may be an opponent for the coterie. The gods are not afraid of such fleas. And how do you understand resistance to such supernatural vampire influences as Potency, Release, and Shadow Force?

The mechanics of WoDu (and common sense) dictate that powers are countered with similar powers, with aggressive action at a given level stronger than defensive. Therefore, hidden under the Cloak of Invisibility (4 dot), the victim is automatically revealed to the hunter looking for it with at least 4-5 points of Auspiciousness. For you to be able to protect your agents' mind from my aggressive Domination, you would have to be at least an Akashic Brotherhood Oracle with access to at least Level 9 Mind Sphere, or be an equally powerful Antediluvian or Greater Incarna. Or to have an appropriate level of True Faith for the Messiah.

Without a back as wide as the target's back, you don't even have to try offensive actions against them, if you don't want to end up stupidly.

Let me illustrate this with an example: Our team comes from the 1980s. At the turn of the century, it was put back in time to 1111 and is now back around 1960. All in all, each vampire is around 1000 years old, 6 or 7 generations, and generally 'goes to Methuselah'. But there are our peers on stage or vampires 100-200 years older than us, whom we are not able to bite even in a group. Some half their age (such as Vlad Tepes aka Dracula) are also able to sweep the floor with us (I won't tell you exactly how, I don't want to spoil anyone's pleasure from the Transylvanian Chronicles). Yes, we are really powerful, but in fact we are still playing against bigger than us, not some neonates from Pcim Dolna (anyway, one neonate from Pcim Dolna sliced ​​the 800-year-old Voivode into slices, but this is due to his pedigree rather than his own abilities; P). As they say in one of my favorite movies, there's always a bigger fish.

The Golden Rule allows the Narrator to do with the world as he pleases, but then you no longer play World of Darkness, but World of Myown. Nevertheless, the term "we sent a werewolf on the Antediluvian" reminds me unequivocally of "we sent a preschooler to the commando company".
I think love is stronger than habits or circumstances. I think it is possible to keep yourself for someone for a long time and still remember why you were waiting when she comes at last.

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Murin
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Murin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:37 pm

The rule of a much stronger one can not be beaten without a back is a bit tight and has nothing to do with reality. Look at the actual stories. Who Destroyed the Roman Empire? How did Byzantium really collapse? How was the United States formed? There are many such cases in history. Sometimes the "colossus" digests itself from the inside. Although physically strong, it is weak in soul. If you want to defeat someone like that, just wait for this moment. The Antediluvian, waking up from a veeeeery long lethargy, won't be so terribly strong. He is not yet awake and will not use his full potential. You have to make modifications for such things, otherwise you will have a completely unreal system. Such a vampire was not supposed to be, taking into account the cube system and the assumptions of the first edition. Play your character as accurately as possible. Recreate the real world that the players believe in. It's a cool world where nobody has a moment of weakness.
Would you like me to put you out of your misery, before I put you out of your misery?

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Irakhash
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Irakhash » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 pm

The antediluvian, even freshly awakened (or even still stuck in the torpor), is firstly more powerful than anything players can bring against it, and secondly, it's physically unavailable.

According to various source texts on the diabolism committed on Cappadocia or Tzimisce, the Antediluvian is not able to endanger anything if he himself does not wish to do so. Please don't compare gods with empires because they are not the same class.

For me, a world in which the player is unable to change certain things is more credible than the world in which players set the Third Generation at the corners and dictate the course of events. If this is the case in your world, it means that someone WoD (we suffer! We suffer!) Has mistaken Forgotten Realms (albeit, go there for Elminster) or Exalted.

The Roman Empire fell because Mithras and Dominus stopped supporting them, and the Gangrel, Tzimisce and Cain himself knew what else was with the Visigoths.

Byzantium fell because Michaelis and Draconus lost chess to Esakuri.

The United States rose because the Indians with bows and spirits had no chance against orthodox Puritans with Gatling rifles.

Please note that for the Elder / Ancient Vampire team, an insurmountable challenge, regardless of resources at their disposal, is one vampire of the fifth or fourth generation, or several sixes with the appropriate age on the meter. I still can't imagine how this can be done, and my imagination is vivid. Especially since most high-level disciplines survive your own death
Mortals cannot perceive me with the physical eye whilst in my pure form unless it is of my choosing, for it would result in fatality, which begs the question of why you are an exception.

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Brerg
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Brerg » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:55 pm

I also do not fully understand the principle of "colossus digested from the inside" in the form of some antediluvian. His organization could go through this scenario, but his skills would not.
While it is easy to deprive such a person of prestige, extensive influence, etc., killing him requires comparable power. You can make a werewolf with powers to kill an antediluvian - but what for? Neither balanced it is nor the most effective - there are other simpler ways when you have the right power.
The dudes with the blasters are ok, but first they have to find some "old stuff" on the plate. Moreover, resistance to Domination and Presence alone is not enough.
Death is lighter than a feather. Duty, heavier than a mountain.

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Matsui
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Re: Vampire: Masquerade

Post by Matsui » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:03 pm

The incident that you described to me in PM with this werewolf is unlikely - Antediluvians according to the WoD storyline generally do not wake up before Gehenna. Also, the Tremere clan wouldn't be interested in biting the Antediluvian for several reasons:
- first, what for? Tremere has his own personality problems, he doesn't have to worry about other Antediluvians.
- secondly, our Antediluvian has his children (the whole clan!) who can get on his feet with one telepathic command (see Father of the Ravnos clan. He woke up and called all the children to him to satisfy his hunger).
- thirdly, other antediluvians will not allow us to kill ours, as it disturbs the balance of power to their disadvantage.
- fourth, even an Antediluvian scattered into four winds does not have to die at all, it has several different options to return (Distortion and other disciplines, rebirth in the body of its offspring or diabolist).
- Fifth, for Tremere's spells to seriously harm the Antediluvian, it would require a ceremony conducted by Tremere himself and the flower of the Council of Seven, at least. Note that the most powerful spell cast by the Tremere clan, the curse imposed on the Assamite clan, not only did not apply to its entirety (but only to those who voluntarily succumbed to the curse), it was also easily lifted by one Methuselah (not just any other true, because it is about Ur-Shulgi, but on the other hand, it is impossible to say about any Methuselah 'just any'). Therefore, I am of the opinion that the Tremere spells could help the anti-Antediluvian team no more than the dead incense.

Oh, I am not denying your right to finish the Antediluvian as needed in the scenario, but in WoD, where the Evils triumph (and the Antediluvians are very, very, very bad) such an event cannot take place without shaking the whole concept of the world.

I have participated in adventures and led adventures in which the characters of the players meet the Methuselahs of their clans (even if our team had the pleasure (?) To face Al-Asrada), contact the Oracles (e.g. El Dorado) and the Greater Incarna, which however, it does not mean that they would be able to threaten them in any way.

What "goes" in relationships between young vampires (up to 8 generations) is impossible to do at higher power levels.

I see one possibility in which I would allow such a great imbalance of the game as the team killing the Antediluvian: if their deeds were the last herald of the coming of Gehenna and the act of killing the Clan Father was their last act in the last session. And this is also only if I did not plan to run WoD for at least a few years
The sun does not abandon the moon to darkness.

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